Can I Mediate if I’m Angry?

Anger is a normal feeling to have during a divorce. In fact, if you didn’t feel angry there would probably be something very wrong. Usually, one person has been unhappy for a period of time preceding the divorce. When that person tells the other that he or she has decided to leave the marriage, the other is in shock and has to deal with lots of emotions: sorrow, fear and certainly anger.


Whether you're the angry one or are dealing with an angry (ex) spouse, it’s never easy. Anger often builds up without your knowing it and if you are not aware of feeling angry, the anger will cause you, or your spouse to lash out.


Anger can be expressed in mediation and in fact, it is a valuable tool for a mediator to use to not only resolve the divorce, but also to help shape a better divorce agreement. In mediation anger is a clue that there is an important piece of information which has not yet been expressed and must be explored and understood. Anger tells me someone has important needs which are not being met. When someone is angry I want to hear how they are feeling and want to understand why they are angry.


If you could resolve all of these problems yourselves, you probably wouldn’t be getting divorced. All couples have issues which feel overwhelming to one or both of you  and feels they can't be resolved, but that's not a fact, it is how you feel. Hopefully, you are coming to mediation to help this resolution come sooner, rather than later.


I have seen people really transformed by the mediation process from the time when they first separate, when they are full of fear and don’t know what their future will look and a year or so later, when all of the issues have been worked out and they have learned they can survive and develop a new, full and satisfying life independent of their former spouse.


If the feelings are too painful, I will offer people the choice not to speak to each other directly. If someone is very angry, they may prefer to speak to me rather than to their spouse. We may need to take a break from mediation, sometimes a few weeks, until the person starts to work through the anger and feel better. I may have some separate meetings with the angry person to help them explore their options and understand what is at the core of the anger, usually as part of a joint session in which I would also meet with the spouse to get their input on how to meet the needs of the angry person so that we can move through and work with the anger.


When we use anger as a tool, it can fuel movement in mediation. I recently mediated a divorce where the husband, Bill* expressed a lot of anger during our first session. He did not want to pay alimony (which in NY state is called maintenance), and was furious that his wife, Cathy* was requesting it. As we began to explore this issue, Cathy spoke about why she felt she was entitled to alimony, she’d given up her career to take care of their children, and this was a joint decision they made when they had their first child. This information did not ease his anger.

I asked Bill to tell us why he felt so strongly about this, I assured him Cathy would listen and not interrupt. He began to talk eloquently about how difficult this period of time had been for him, how he was living in a small apartment while his wife and children were in their spacious house. How he didn’t have money to go out to dinner or a movie, how he was cooped up and alone in this small apartment, while she was in their beautiful home with the children.


Bill’s anger helped him to express some important needs that he had not expressed before. He felt that financially, things were very tight. He felt under a lot of pressure to be the breadwinner. He felt that Cathy didn’t understand what he was going through. He felt that he didn’t see his children enough.


Cathy was able to hear all of this and she responded by talking about the financial pressures she felt, too. She couldn’t buy new shoes for the children or for herself, nor could she get her hair colored. Cathy was sympathetic to her husband and was even having a similar experience.

Cathy had planned to go back to work, but after listening to Bill, she said that she realized she needed to try to find a job immediately. She said she was not at all trying to keep the children from their father, and offered to alter the schedule anytime he could get off work early to spend more time with the children.


When I helped Cathy listen to Bill, and Bill felt heard by her, his anger began to dissipate. He acknowledged what a wonderful mother she had been to their children, and how glad he was that she’d been able to be home with the children until now, and was even able to realize that he felt sad that she wasn’t going to continue to be home with them.


This family was able to resolve their conflict over alimony and the anger was a useful tool that helped us to accomplish this resolution. Once Cathy began to plan to go back to work, Bill relaxed about the issue of alimony. As they were both having the same experience about money, the discussion shifted, instead of the problem being whether Cathy would take money from Bill, we instead confronted a shared problem, how to have more money in the family?

 I told the couple about tax implications – money paid for child support is not deductible, but money paid for maintenance IS deductible. Suddenly, Bill’s eyes lit up. He realized that if he paid alimony to Cathy, and she used it to run the household, they would both end up in lower tax brackets, thereby resulting in a net tax savings. (Note:  This law changed Jan. 2019 – alimony is no longer deductible to payor under federal law, though it’s still deductible under NY state law.)


We ended the session talking about how much and how long he should pay Cathy maintenance, instead of whether he would give it to her.


Sometimes anger can't be so easily resolved. Many fights are caused by disappointed expectations. No one gets married expecting to divorced. Disappointed expectations are painful to swallow, but are to be expected during a divorce.


If you feel overwhelmed by the feelings of your divorce, don't be afraid to seek help. Get some additional support in your life, consider seeing a therapist for a period of time. The more support you get, the faster you will get through this and come out the other side. You WILL find your way through all of these difficult changes. Someday you will look back on this and find that there are ways that it made you stronger.


August 26, 2025
Many people don’t know that about 98% of contested divorce and family court cases never appear before a judge in a trial and are settled by their attorneys out of court. The parties may meet the judge in a hearing or settlement conference (where you go into the judge’s chambers and get scolded for not reaching an agreement), but the judge will rarely, if ever, make decisions at time. For the most part, judges hate making decisions for families. Even though it's their job to do so, they can't give up hope that parents will find their higher selves and work out their issues around parenting. Most people prefer to make decisions for their kids rather than have a stranger in black robes tell them how to parent. After all, it doesn't matter to the judge if you want your kid to study ballet, play soccer, take piano, French or tennis lessons, but it probably matters quite a lot to you. Even around finances, which are thought to involve less emotion (though I question that) judges will want to defer to a divorce financial analyst or financial expert. The reality is that our court system is so backed up and slow to come to decisions, that attorneys at some point get real with each other and say 'look, you know what you're asking is not reasonable,’ and a compromise begins.  As a trained mediator and collaborative attorney, I can be the first step, so your settlement negotiations involve focusing on your underlying interests and finding solutions that work for both of you and your kids.
August 26, 2025
Some couples who come to mediation are high conflict. No matter what they’re discussing, they take extreme positions. His position, he wants to pay zero. Her position, she wants 100. In many situations the cycle of fighting is covering underlying issues. All each person wants is for the other to understand their thoughts/needs/views. When we’re rigidly taking a stance unwilling to consider other options, negotiations are difficult, especially when children are involved. But people can change. One couple took a break from mediation as it was so full of conflict. When they returned, whenever the husband was argumentative, the wife would pause for a few seconds and then respond, not by telling him how wrong he was, but instead stating why she needed what she needed. After the session I asked her about this new behavior and she explained that she’d been learning how to self regulate. She knew their old way of communicating or not communicating, was hindering them moving forward, so decided to find a different way to deal with the situation.  We were able to move forward with the mediation and they were each able to move into new chapters of their lives.
August 26, 2025
When people use the terms ‘sole custody’ or ‘joint custody’ what do they mean? I’ve found when people say they want sole custody, what they mean might not be what I mean, when using the term.  In the context of a contested divorce, versus an uncontested divorce, they might mean they want their child to be with them full-time or they might be talking about who has the authority to make decisions about the child. There are two components of custody in New York: physical custody (also called residential custody), which is the schedule of the child for going back and forth between the parents’ homes (parenting time) and legal custody, which is the authority to make decisions for the child. Legal custody would apply only to major decisions that have long term effect on the child, such as religious education, choice of school and medical decisions. This wouldn’t apply to day-to-day decisions; Can I have a sleepover at Bo’s house on Saturday? Can I have candy after school? I had a case where the parents were fighting bitterly over sole custody. As it turned out no one had asked them what they meant by sole custody. One parent wanted the kids every other weekend because they were in middle school and high school and were busy all week with school and after-school activities. They wanted to be involved in making decisions. The other parent wanted the kids to spend weeknights in one home, to have consistent routines for getting ready for school, and every other weekend with each parent, and was happy for the co-parent to have sole decision making around medical questions, as they were a doctor, and shared decision making about everything else. It turned out that both parents could have what they wanted with sole custody.
August 26, 2025
When I get a call from someone whose spouse has substance abuse, my heart sinks. Substance abuse is a challenging, intractable problem. It feels as if there are two relationships within the marriage. The relationship between the two spouses and the relationship between the addict and their addiction. How do you trust someone who’s as obsessed and driven as an addict? We can't have a negotiated settlement with someone who's actively addicted to a mind-altering substance and still in the throes of the fight. AA’s Step One – admit you have a problem. This really is the first step and absolutely a prerequisite for negotiating in mediation. We must be able to talk about the risks to the family members and can’t do that if the addict hasn’t completed Step One. These are some of the challenges I’ve seen… A man who every night drinks to oblivion. Blackouts around 7pm and wants his 5 year old twins to spend the night at his apartment. What if one of the kids wakes during the night unwell? Will dad be able to get up and help the child? No, because when someone’s passed out, they’re not asleep, they’re unable to be woken. A woman drank till she passed out on the floor, while supposedly caring for her 1 ½ year old. She'd left a pot on the stove with the burner on. Luckily the dad came home and found the child playing on the floor next to his mother. The pot was burnt but hadn’t yet, caused a fire. An 8 year old woke in the night and went looking for his father, much to his surprise and terror found he was alone with his sleeping 6 year old sister. Dad had put the kids to bed and thought, “Oh, now I’m free to go to the local pub for a drink.” How do I know about this story? The terrified child called his mother, she dropped everything and rushed over to pick up the kids. If we can’t discuss the risks to family members and the non-addicted person’s fears, then we can’t begin to figure out guidelines for working with these families. That’s not to say that there’s no way back. People can get sober and successfully stay sober and change their lives. We want to support recovery efforts wherever we see them. However, we can’t rush to the finish line, it takes the time it takes. And if we do have someone who’s working on sobriety, how do we quell the other parents’ concern and fears?  Some choices are daily drug and alcohol tests and / or have another adult present. Maybe a family member or sitter, who monitors the situation and has authority to take the kids and leave, if they have reason to suspect that the parent is relapsing.
August 26, 2025
Dealing with jealousy is a painful and challenging issue for anyone and during divorce, it can be more pernicious.  The person you’ve loved and trusted with your life, has practically turned on you and left. It can be less painful to think that it’s someone else’s fault, than to face the reality that 2 people contributed to the end of a marriage. It’s painful to be left for another person. However, it can be just as painful to believe you’re being left for another person and your ex keeps denying it. Are you being gaslighted? Are you going crazy? For the accused partner, if you’ve begun a new relationship, best to mea culpa and be honest. The truth always comes out eventually. The longer you lie the more hurt and manipulated your ex will feel. If you’re not in another relationship, the dynamics can be even more challenging. You can’t prove a negative (e.g. I am not having an affair with Tony), and it’s exhausting continuously denying, denying, denying. This is where a mediator helps or talk with your consulting attorney about how to bring the accusations and the truth into the room. Mediation works best when we face reality, be it super painful or extremely irritating. We need reality as the base for the conversations to be meaningful and useful, when structuring your future.
August 26, 2025
Brian and Zeke were divorcing and both wanted to continue working in the business they started together. We discussed the pros and cons. Pros: Continuity of service for the customer Maintaining incomes Keeping the good and getting rid of the not so good Cons: Harder to end the relationship Will they be able to work together constructively? They decided to continue their business because they think they'll be ok. Each has his own sphere of authority within the business and if issues arise, they'll come back to mediation. Mediation - where problems are resolved.
August 26, 2025
6) Learn the difference between what is and what you think should be. If we are living in a netherland of what we think should be, we are completely cut off from reality or 'what is'. If you think that you should not have to be experiencing divorce, then you cannot accept what is...that you are indeed getting divorced. You live in a world of your own. We all create a list of "should be's" that keep us stuck in the status quo: I should be happier, I should be getting more support, I shouldn't have to work, and I should still be married. By concentrating on what we should be, we ignore what actually exists for us and remain stuck.I think we should live in a world where peace is the predominant ethic but we don't live in that world. That's a dream I have. By acknowledging the world as it truly exists, I can make choices as to how I will live my life and also how to address the problems that do exist. 7) Consider the emotional wounds that you brought to the marriage. Your ex may complain that you were not a warm person. I doubt that it was your marriage that created a cold person, if indeed that is what you are. We bring ourselves into our marriages and the parts of us that show up and create issues are the parts of us that we haven't addressed yet. They are emotional wounds from somewhere in our past and they have a tendency to pop-up in our close relationships or when we are faced with challenging times. Now is your chance to address those wounds and heal them so that you do not repeat your so-called mistakes again. Use your divorce as a catalyst to go inside and heal yourself. 8) Release toxic emotions. Get rid of the debilitating toxic emotions that you are carrying around. Picture them as heavy baggage that keeps you stuck in your misery and produces a broken back. Anger, bitterness, hatred, resentment, rage...these are all toxic emotions that will harm you far more than your ex. You are the one who pays the price. You need to work through them and then release them because they will weigh you down for the rest of your life if you allow it. Once you have done the work of truth versus interpretations and what is versus what should be, you will find it much easier to give up your anger and resentment. They do not serve you and you are learning to give away anything that does not serve you well. 9) Learn forgiveness for yourself and your mate. You might not be able to practice forgiveness in the early stages of the journey to recovery but if you go through these other steps, you will be able to forgive your ex and more importantly, yourself. Forgiveness takes a big load off your shoulders. It releases energy that can be used for positive things.Forgiveness does not necessarily mean you condone bad behavior, it simply means you forgive. If we separate the person from the behavior it becomes easier to forgive. You know that just because you sometimes say mean things it does not mean you are a bad person. It's just a lapse in judgment. We are not necessarily our behavior. We know all the subconscious motivations that exist within every individual. If we look at the inner child within a person, forgiveness is a given. 10) Make conscious decisions; utilize free choice. When you do the inner work of divorce recovery, you tend to attend to many things that have been left unresolved for years. You become more conscious of your actions and your choices. You become aware of the subconscious and how it can run your life. When you learn to observe the constant mind chatter that goes on inside your heads, you learn that the mind chatter is not us, it's just chatter.Making conscious decisions based in free choice means that we are not letting our mind chatter, our past, our emotional wounds or our interpretations of reality run the show. We take control of our lives. Conscious living allows for incredible freedom and the ability to create extraordinary changes. And your bonus tip: 11) Find the gifts of your divorce. Everything that occurs in our lives and everything that we are (warts and all) has a hidden gift. If you speak to someone who has survived divorce and has gone on to create a vibrant life based upon their own passions and values, they will certainly tell you that their divorce was the best thing that happened to them. That may not be true for you but there is a gift waiting for you to find. My ex likes to say that he is responsible for my new career and to a certain extent he has played a part. Oftentimes it takes a good whack on the head to awaken us to life's possibilities and our own happiness.It's the old adage: Every cloud has a silver lining. It is true. Search for the gifts of your divorce and it becomes yet another step toward a successful recovery from the trauma of divorce.Successful divorce recovery takes inner work. Much like a flower, the work that takes place underneath the surface of the ground, invisible to the human eye, is the crucial aspect. Without that subterranean work, there would be no flower. The reward of the flower is dependent upon the inner work of the seed and the root system. It is the same with humans. Do the inner work and you see the outer rewards. About Shelley Stile: Shelley is a professionally trained Life Coach. She specializes in working with women and divorce recovery. She is a member of the International Speaker's Forum and served as a Coach for Harv Ekar's Life Directions seminar series. You can learn more about Life Coaching with Shelley: http://www.changecoachshelley.com http://shelleyblog.changecoachshelley.com Contact Shelley shelleystile@changecoachshelley.com Rosalind Sedacca, CCT, is a Certified Corporate Trainer, relationship seminar facilitator and author of How Do I Tell the Kids about the Divorce? A Create-a-Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children -- with Love! For free articles, an ezine and other valuable resources about Child-Centered Divorce visit http://www.childcentereddivorce.com . To order her new ebook, visit http://www.howdoitellthekids.com .
August 26, 2025
This excellent article is written by Life Coach Shelley Stile. There is no single more powerful stumbling block to moving beyond our divorce into a new life than the inability to accept our new reality. Acceptance is the hardest part of the divorce recovery process. Acceptance requires total honesty, courage and the willingness to let go of the life that we had...a life that no longer exists. Without that acceptance, we cannot move forward and create a new life. How does one learn acceptance? Although it takes time and a good deal of inner work, it can be done. Here is a step-by-step guide to move you towards acceptance: 1) It's about you, not them. One of the most powerful lessons in life is the knowledge that we have control over one person and one person only...ourselves. If you are looking outside of yourself to move forward, you won't. We can't change anyone but ourselves. We have power over no one except ourselves. It is when we turn inward and do the work on ourselves that we will be able to effect dramatic and positive changes in our lives. Being a victim means giving away all control and power. If I blame someone else for my situation, then I am powerless to do anything about it as I have chosen to absolve myself of any responsibility. We can create changes that will make our lives better but not until we stop trying to change our ex or our current reality and we realize that it's about us, not them. 2) Get support. If you think you can do this all by yourself you may be in for a big surprise. Research consistently shows that getting support in any challenging endeavor leads to more success. Whether you choose a divorce support group, a therapist, a member of the clergy or a Life Coach, just do it.If you are one of those people who think that you have to handle life's challenges on your own because somehow you equate support with weakness, get over it! Getting support is a sign of intelligence as far as I'm concerned as well as an indication that you really are serious about moving onward in life. 3) First, you must get through the initial stages of loss that includes denial, grief, anger, depression and whatever else you might be feeling early in the divorce process. These emotions are all natural and necessary states that we need to experience. They are the norm versus the exception. Each one of these feelings needs to be embraced and experienced fully. There must be an ending before a new beginning. There is a difference between fully experiencing an emotional stage and getting stuck in it. Beware excessive self-pity and real depression. Here is where support becomes important to your well-being and improvement. 4) Distinguish between facts and interpretations.I cannot stress the importance of this step enough. People get stuck when they cannot face the facts and prefer to believe that their personal interpretations are reality.You might be familiar with the exercise of the picture that has a hidden image within it. Ten people may come up with ten different interpretations of the picture. Some people will see the hidden image immediately and others will never see it until it is pointed out to them. Either way, the hidden picture exists. It is a fact. You may feel that you have been mentally abused and yet your partner may feel that you are the one that is abusive. He said, she said. Probably a counselor will see a totally different picture altogether. You know, there's your side, his side and then the truth. Once you are truthful with yourself and can see the facts versus the drama or story of your divorce, you will be on your way to acceptance. 5) Be brutally honest and take responsibility for your marriage, divorce and life. Those of us who can be totally honest with ourselves will receive the gift of a deep awareness of who and what we are along with the ability to accept our lives as they are without looking to blame someone else. Being honest allows us to see things that hadn't existed for us before. The truth will indeed set you free. By setting aside our egos, we can look at our life for what it actually is versus a story about our divorce.Once we have been honest and have embraced all the facts about our divorce, we are free to accept full responsibility for our lives. Responsibility is power and the freedom to choose what we want next in life. If we cannot take responsibility, we remain victims and victims absolve themselves of both their responsibility and therefore the power to control their own lives. About Shelley Stile: Shelley is a professionally trained Life Coach. She specializes in working with women and divorce recovery. She is a member of the International Speaker's Forum and served as a Coach for Harv Ekar's Life Directions seminar series. You can learn more about Life Coaching with Shelley: http://www.changecoachshelley.com http://shelleyblog.changecoachshelley.com Contact Shelley: shelleystile@changecoachshelley.com .* Rosalind Sedacca, CCT, is a Certified Corporate Trainer, relationship seminar facilitator and author of How Do I Tell the Kids about the Divorce? A Create-a-Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children -- with Love! For free articles, an ezine and other valuable resources about Child-Centered Divorce visit http://www.childcentereddivorce.com . To order her new ebook, visit www.ChildCenteredDivorce.com
August 26, 2025
When we are in the midst of life trauma it is very difficult to experience anything but the pain, disappointment, hurt and anguish related to that experience. That's only natural. But very often, looking back in hindsight, we can find meaning, relevance, valuable lessons and insights that were the direct result of those major life challenges. Without that life-altering event we would not become the successes we are today. Many people look upon that result as the "gift" they received from the experience - the wisdom they gleaned, the turning point they needed to move on to a new chapter in their lives. They look back and can say the lesson was tough, but they don't regret it in the least. I believe divorce can be looked upon as one of those "gifts" and life lessons if we choose to look for the reward. What did you learn as a result of this experience? Who are you today that you would not have been had you not divorced? Do you see inner wisdom or strength that makes you proud? Have you made decisions that are more supportive of your life and values? Do you like yourself better? Have you found new career directions or new meaning in life as a direct result of your divorce? If you can't yet answer yes to any of these questions, give yourself time. Perhaps you have not fully moved through the inner and outer transitions resulting from your divorce. Perhaps you are still holding on to resentment, anger, jealousy or other negative emotions that are keeping you from experiencing the freedom from old programming and patterns. I believe there is a gift in every tough experience in our lives - if we choose to see it. And why shouldn't we put our energy in that direction? What good does it do to hold on to a past that has slipped away - or to people who are not giving us the love and support we deserve? When we let go of the past, we open the door to a new future - and only then can we empower ourselves to create that future as a much better outcome for ourselves and those we love. Shelley Stile is a professionally trained Life Coach (www.changecoachshelley.com) specializing in divorce issues. She has written about this topic and her advice is worth sharing with you: "Everything that occurs in our lives and everything that we are (warts and all) has a hidden gift. If you speak to someone who has survived divorce and has gone on to create a vibrant life based upon their own passions and values, they will certainly tell you that their divorce was the best thing that happened to them. That may not be true for you but there is a gift waiting for you to find. My ex likes to say that he is responsible for my new career and to a certain extent he has played a part. Oftentimes it takes a good whack on the head to awaken us to life's possibilities and our own happiness. It's the old adage: Every cloud has a silver lining. It is true. Search for the gifts of your divorce and it becomes yet another step toward a successful recovery from the trauma of divorce. Successful divorce recovery takes inner work. Much like a flower, the work that has taken place underneath the surface of the ground, invisible to the human eye, is the crucial aspect. Without that subterranean work, there would be no flower. The reward of the flower is dependent upon the inner work of the seed and the root system. It is the same with humans. Do the inner work and you will ultimately see the outer rewards." Don't be afraid to go within and plant the seeds for the tomorrow you dream about. With love, patience and gratitude I know your garden will ultimately grow and flourish! Rosalind Sedacca, CDC is the founder of the Child-Centered Divorce Network, a Divorce & Co-Parenting Coach and author of the acclaimed e-book, How Do I Tell the Kids About the Divorce? A Create-a-Storybook Guide to Preparing Your Children -- With Love! To get her advice, coaching services, expert interviews, programs, e-courses and other valuable resources on divorce and co-parenting, visit: http://www.childcentereddivorce.com
August 26, 2025
The starting point for divorce negotiations is to divide debt 50/50. This doesn't include debt racked up because of an addiction, gambling disorder or fancy dinners with a paramour. So, the presumption that debt is joint can be questioned, depending on what the debt arose from. Lost a week’s pay gambling? That's yours. Dental bills and groceries? You’re sharing. Generally, mortgages stay with the house. A spouse gets the house, they also get the mortgage. If the couple sells the house, most often they pay off the mortgage, then split the remaining proceeds of the sale equally. Responsibility for debt: Technically, credit cards are held by one person. Even if you're a cardholder on the account, the bills are only in your name and you're the one the credit card company will go after. However, if you're getting divorced, then the courts have the authority to distribute the responsibility as they see fit. To protect yourself, you and your partner can enter into a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement to clarify the debt in your name is yours and their name is theirs. You can say in a prenup that you'll divide debt accrued during the marriage proportionally based on your incomes. If one partner earned $100k and the other earned $50k, the debt would be divided 2/3 – 1/3. The number one thing I recommend, is to know what’s going on in your household. Look at the monthly statement, circle everything you expect your partner or ex partner to chip in for and send it to them. If credit card debt starts accruing, it’s hard to get out from under it, because the interest they charge is so high. You might have a chance to change it, restructure it – move it to 0% interest offers to keep interest charges from piling up. Find a debt restructuring company, which will negotiate with your creditors, lower the balance owed and put you on a payment plan. If you have retirement assets, maybe you can take a loan against them to pay off credit card debt. Those loans are great, you pay interest to yourself. You can nip it in the bud but only if you know about it. Some of the worst debt divorce stories I've seen were where one partner accumulated debt that the other didn't know about. Nothing like thinking, “great we’re selling our house for $1,300,000,” only to discover your share will be $200,000 because you only learned about the debt at closing.  You can also protect yourself with a postnuptial agreement. I worked with a couple whose only area of conflict was money and they were debating whether to stay married. We negotiated the terms of a postnuptial agreement in which they agreed that any debt would belong to the person whose name was on the debt and would belong solely to that spouse. Even if you’re already married, you can negotiate who will own what. Just be sure to put it in writing.
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